Youtube video review.Fact or Fiction, Good or Bad

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Re: Youtube video review.Fact or Fiction, Good or Bad

Postby orvil » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:35 am

metalman302 wrote:So everyone lost their minds over the deception and the stat but they have no interest in the current bbb because the LBS culture said their head tube is a couple degrees more optimal? (And chsinstay length blah blah) Has to be more than that.

You've asked a good question and made a good observation metalman. It isn't propoganda that keeps this forum's traffic down nor is it the negative attitudes on the other forums. All traffic, even on the other forums, seems to be cyclical and seasonal. But we've kind of side stepped the original intent of this forum, which was to help people make good choices when looking for less expensive bikes than could be found at their LBS. Instead of providing help to newcomers we've immediately begun telling them what mods to make to their bikes and you're correct, most newcomers want advice on a bike they can ride right out of the store. Some of us realize that most users of this forum aren't as passionate about shredding trails as members of other forums that spend thousands on their bikes and pursuing their hobby. We ALL need to remember the trails can't differentiate how expensive the bike is as it's ridden on them. Some of us have kind of taken over this forum and created their own blog dedicated to bashing LBS bikes and riders as well as the major bike manufacturers. We need to refocus on the main direction of this forum which is to help newcomers make informed choices and to aid those that want to ride without taking out a 2nd mortgage or maxxing out their credit cards. That's my goal on here anyway.
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Re: Youtube video review.Fact or Fiction, Good or Bad

Postby Purple Haze » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:58 pm

They are informed choices orvil and for the most part we are giving the ultimate answer of why you don't have to spend so much on a bike.It most certainly is propaganda in its highest form to tell others not to even consider BBBs and look for a ten year old LBS used bike to start off with.Sorry, but nobody is more forceful than some of the forums and youtubers saying that you cannot ride trails with anything but a LBS bike.The agenda on my part is the absolute truth and not my opinion.The industry catered to misinformed people that were not pros but were wary of being shamed about their purchases of extremely capable BBBs.Many of those people that were saying that only a LBS bike will do are making money to say that.No one here makes a dime off any information and we are way more informed than most of those people because some of us are looking at the source of this stuff.People that visit here want performance like everyone else and not some beater bike that they can ride to school every once and awhile.The products I talk about are real cheap and perform on levels equal to super expensive junk from a LBS.You forgot orvil that this is Big Box Bikes and not Big Beater Bikes or Big Buck Bikes.Of course we will give our two cents worth on the Disney princess Jasmine bike but if you don't want to spend money on a EX 5 but want a bike that will perform just as good, then we have that covered also for cheap or at least I do.
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Re: Youtube video review.Fact or Fiction, Good or Bad

Postby Purple Haze » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Another thing that I will state is that Vilano Blackjack comes pretty darn close to a top level XC racer and the Iron horse 3.3 as well as the XR PRO are EX 5 equals or better if you want to build it that way for cheap without any doubt in my mind.I consider that good advice without scamming people out of their money.
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Re: Youtube video review.Fact or Fiction, Good or Bad

Postby Purple Haze » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:53 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0yjPIoezq8 Here you go orvil,is this the type of bikes you are referring to when you said basics.This is what people think a BBB is thanks to that other forum.Kev is trying his best to review all the bikes that give people the lowest impression of what is a BBB and what people think these bikes should be.If this is your idea of how to introduce people to the sport then no wonder people think why even bother because I can only ride on dirt paths.No one said this forum is supposed to introduce people to being stuck on a dirt path that's flat.There are literally thousands of bikes like this that are so cheap its ridiculous.99 bucks or 59 bucks is not representing all BBBs.
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Re: Youtube video review.Fact or Fiction, Good or Bad

Postby Purple Haze » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:22 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy4V36X2fKI Best XR PRO review from seth of seths bike hacks :lol:
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Re: Youtube video review.Fact or Fiction, Good or Bad

Postby orvil » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:46 am

PH I don't disagree with your point of view, I actually agree with it for the most part. But I was only commenting on metalman302's comment that everyone doesn't want to modify a bike. I'm pretty sure that the large majority of Walmart, Target, K-Mart and other Big Box retailer's bikes sold are the lower end bikes that are used on bike paths, easy trails and neighborhood riding. In spite of your overwhelming enthusiasm for the higher-end bikes sold thru Big Box retailers, these bikes are definitely the minority of sales, otherwise we'd see more of them in our neighborhood stores instead of the cheapest bikes. I doubt that anyone considering buying a BBB bike for actual trail use is going to be negatively impacted by the destruction of the lowest-end bikes on You Tube videos nor the negative ratings on other forums. Again, this forum exists to provide potential buyers with alternatives to expensive bikes, which, for most of us here, are the higher-end bikes available thru Big Box retailers. But as I stated earlier, not everyone wants a shred-capable bike; even some of those buyers of the cheaper, older technology bikes populate this forum as well. I'm not trying to brow-beat them into spending more money for a more capable bike that they will never use to its potential. As I stated on several other threads, when people ask me what bike they should buy, I ask them to honestly admit what type of riding they will be using the bike for, how much they are willing to spend, how mechanically competent they are and if they want to grow their riding skills in the future. Some of those people only want to ride paved paths or neighborhood streets with their kids. Do you honestly think an XR-Pro with another $500 in mods is what they need? Hell no, the lowest end 26er available will do. Alternatively I've had people tell me they really want to trail ride but have no skills and don't have a lot to spend. I've directed these people to the best BBB they could afford and then told them modifications they can perform as their skills and budget allow. But some people do want to ride gnarly trails and don't have a lot to spend. In spite of your disdain, I've directed them to older used LBS bikes on CL or other sale sites but helped them with their choices; the bikes available from Big Box retailers within their personal budget just aren't trail capable. I just don't give a crap what name is on anyone's bike, I just want them on the trails. I'm not going to bash anyone's bike choice. Nor get pissed when anyone shows up with an LBS bike. It's their money to spend.
You go on and on about the "propaganda" spewed by the major brands and other forums. You insist that there is some type of conspiracy in the bike industry to make BBB bikes look "bad" so all bike sales will be with the major brands and all the money spent in the bike industry will line only their pockets. You insist that "those that have been following the industry" know of this conspiracy. I'm just a consumer like most of us here. But I see no evidence of any "conspiracy" nor brainwashing "propaganda". But I do see the rants and raves of someone with an almost maniacal hatred of anything sold thru an LBS. The rants and raves of someone that is so enamored with bikes that he hasn't even owned nor ridden that he's comparable to the members of other forums that downplay our bikes without riding nor owning.
Again, let's focus on helping consumers make good choices on bikes that suit their needs without browbeating or insisting they spend money that isn't necessary. Let's quit bashing other brands and manufacturers. Let's quit foaming at the mouth when someone mentions a brand that we don't like. And let's quit acting like the mountain biking world will end if people choose to spend their money at a LBS. It's their money.
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Re: Youtube video review.Fact or Fiction, Good or Bad

Postby Purple Haze » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:25 am

My rant as you know orvil is strictly price.Wallstreet journal is running articles about LBS prices and its no joke because people are totally unaware of what your getting into when you choose that path.Its not just initial cost either because stuff breaks on their bikes also.I agree with the simplistic approach and giving cheap alternatives as well as warning of the path people take when going down the rabbit hole of utter financial no return.I featured a frame a while back that was all aluminum on Aliexpress that was the equivalent to a 27.5 LBS lightweight bike and the price was 283 bucks from two suppliers.That same frame because of its geometry jumped up to 850 bucks because the equivalent LBS frame starts at 1,700 bucks.I am giving everyone here the absolute lowest( or coming close)price for equal things without a doubt.The Madone might be stretching it a little but not that far off.The point is I give performance now and not ten years later because many people want that.I agree with you about shoving mods down peoples throat that don't really want that, but I have seen over and over that eventually they purchase new bikes when the old one just needed a little help.I was too late to help craig 198 with a longer seat post made out of carbon that could have saved damage to his bike, but maybe I am wrong and the bike really is defective.Point is I am only try to help and spread truth what some of these bikes can really do and do exceptionally well.Seth of Seths bike hacks is off to the moon spreading propaganda about what people really need because he is making money off saying that and really is clueless about BBBs but he is always talking about fixing and modding his own bikes.Go figure because I don't get people like him whatsoever because he is not helping anyone except himself.
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Re: Youtube video review.Fact or Fiction, Good or Bad

Postby dddd » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:00 am

Seth's videos seem like equal parts of product testing and of entertainment. Pretty well done actually.

The product testing is quite severe, but is useful as a practical form of accelerated usage/wear that won't take the viewer days of watching to see where the weaknesses are. All in all, they serve to simulate the worst sort of usage that only accumulates slowly in most cases unless the rider is perhaps very heavy and/or strong or just plain wild.

Even moderate riders may occasionally lose control of their speed on a mis-judged downhill trail, and Seth is showing how that plays out when the bike is bbb level.

The one thing about the trail-test videos is the unpredictability, which is one part what the trail throws at the rider and one part how the bike's quality control plays out. So no two identical bikes will survive equally even on the same trail with the same rider!
We can't expect such field testing to be perfect or even consistent, but some of what the videos show is useful and likely to be realistically expected, and is teaching viewers about the value of setup and maintenance in some cases.
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Re: Youtube video review.Fact or Fiction, Good or Bad

Postby Purple Haze » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:49 am

You cannot possibly not see right through seth and his ridiculous take on BBBs.He couldn't break the ledge without going to extremes and this last video looks like intentional sabotage.Have you seen the views from his Walmart videos compared to everything else.His target audience is teenagers to 20 somethings that want to see BBBs fail.His skills are impressive for someone that claims to be just your normal everyday rider but that's it.His videos are like those dudes with the cars bought from revenue from youtube.He is not giving any BBB a fair shake ever and his riding videos are for people that don't have access to those types of trails.The Dude just bought a new house with those silly videos.Remember the woman that unboxed Barbie dolls and made ten million dollars because littlie girls liked to see her take them out of a box.GMBN is far more professional and actually has real competitors on their channel.I must give credit to Seth for alluding to this forum and I wish him all the best but remember what this guy said in the last video about every other place that was not a LBS store and then he said its better to buy a 400 hardtail with a brand name than possibly a better bike.MTBR did a number on that guy and he never recovered bless his heart :lol: His videos got better outdoors but they are so chopped up that I think he takes a break every hundred yards or so, but his mind is on that dollar and I don't really take him seriously.
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Re: Youtube video review.Fact or Fiction, Good or Bad

Postby Purple Haze » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:08 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--F9RX3z1e8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQRZDlOJe6g You all be the judge on both these videos but it sounds like Seth has started a trend. Both of these videos feature young men intent on damaging merchandise and returning it to the store to get their money back. I might be getting old but does anyone else see something seriously wrong with this behavior. There are two videos side by side. What other similarities to Seth's video do you find disturbing.
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